Discussion:
Too rigorous closing of tmux support tickets?
(too old to reply)
Keith Williams
2015-04-19 17:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I originally sent this to '***@xteddy.org' and got not response, so
wanted to ask on this forum in case that's more preferred.

In looking at tmux and the sorts of tickets raised against it I have
noticed that a lot of genuine concerns users have had are closed with terse
replies such as "This is in the todo list", or "This option isn't wanted",
or "This is being worked on", without reference.

As a user of tmux, ensuring good community spirit would suggest the tone
needs to be gentler; not everyone here at this forum knows the current
state of tmux.

Can the developers of tmux please change their handling of how users are
supported through the tmux tickets system because it's not giving a good
impression and it's putting me off filing a ticket.

Specifically, both Nicholas Marriott and Thomas Adam have both been terse.
I do not know of anyone else, but if others here could remind them of this
(do they receive list email, I don't know?) I would appreciate it.

Keith
Roberto
2015-04-19 18:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Honestly I have seen this in most of the _open_ source communities I have
interacted with (as a user). I am not speaking about tmux because I have
been following for too short, but I am saying that this "feature" of
developers is rather common.

I think the best we can do is to "ask" developers to be courteous in
english and in software writing :)
Post by Keith Williams
Hi,
wanted to ask on this forum in case that's more preferred.
In looking at tmux and the sorts of tickets raised against it I have
noticed that a lot of genuine concerns users have had are closed with terse
replies such as "This is in the todo list", or "This option isn't wanted",
or "This is being worked on", without reference.
As a user of tmux, ensuring good community spirit would suggest the tone
needs to be gentler; not everyone here at this forum knows the current
state of tmux.
Can the developers of tmux please change their handling of how users are
supported through the tmux tickets system because it's not giving a good
impression and it's putting me off filing a ticket.
Specifically, both Nicholas Marriott and Thomas Adam have both been terse.
I do not know of anyone else, but if others here could remind them of this
(do they receive list email, I don't know?) I would appreciate it.
Keith
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Keith Willians
2015-04-20 00:36:14 UTC
Permalink
I can see how this might be wide-spread but I don't see how that can excuse
the pattern I've seen.

Yes, due care is important, and anything we can do as users is a good
thing, but it's the devs who have all the power and can always be rude and
shoot users down for it. I'm seeing that here, and I don't like it since it
puts me off.

Keith
Post by Roberto
Honestly I have seen this in most of the _open_ source communities I have
interacted with (as a user). I am not speaking about tmux because I have
been following for too short, but I am saying that this "feature" of
developers is rather common.
I think the best we can do is to "ask" developers to be courteous in
english and in software writing :)
Post by Keith Williams
Hi,
wanted to ask on this forum in case that's more preferred.
In looking at tmux and the sorts of tickets raised against it I have
noticed that a lot of genuine concerns users have had are closed with terse
replies such as "This is in the todo list", or "This option isn't wanted",
or "This is being worked on", without reference.
As a user of tmux, ensuring good community spirit would suggest the tone
needs to be gentler; not everyone here at this forum knows the current
state of tmux.
Can the developers of tmux please change their handling of how users are
supported through the tmux tickets system because it's not giving a good
impression and it's putting me off filing a ticket.
Specifically, both Nicholas Marriott and Thomas Adam have both been
terse. I do not know of anyone else, but if others here could remind them
of this (do they receive list email, I don't know?) I would appreciate it.
Keith
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT
Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard
Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live
exercises
http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-
event?utm_
source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=VA_SF
_______________________________________________
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Suraj N. Kurapati
2015-04-20 04:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Williams
In looking at tmux and the sorts of tickets raised against it I
have noticed that a lot of genuine concerns users have had are
closed with terse replies such as "This is in the todo list", or
"This option isn't wanted", or "This is being worked on", without
reference.
Users can still add comments to those closed tickets, so the act of
closing a ticket does not necessarily put an end to its discussion.

For instance, a concerned user may add a comment to a closed ticket
asking for a reference on how "this is being worked on" or they may
ask for clarification on why "this option isn't wanted", and so on.
Post by Keith Williams
the tone needs to be gentler
See http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool
Keith Willians
2015-04-20 12:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
Post by Keith Williams
In looking at tmux and the sorts of tickets raised against it I
have noticed that a lot of genuine concerns users have had are
closed with terse replies such as "This is in the todo list", or
"This option isn't wanted", or "This is being worked on", without
reference.
Users can still add comments to those closed tickets, so the act of
closing a ticket does not necessarily put an end to its discussion.
I understand that but the impression that leaves is just that; discussion
closed. The ultimate thing here is that whoever closes something has made a
statement of intent, otherwise it is just to be left open.

e.g.

http://sourceforge.net/p/tmux/tickets/186/ :

Some felt strongly about this. No real explanation was given. You could
keep the mailing lists around, but host the project somewhere else.

http://sourceforge.net/p/tmux/tickets/177/ :

Comments like "magic ESP hat" are not welcoming.

http://sourceforge.net/p/tmux/tickets/131/ :

"I really don't think this is necessary" - without explanation why.

There's many more examples.

Keith
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
For instance, a concerned user may add a comment to a closed ticket
asking for a reference on how "this is being worked on" or they may
ask for clarification on why "this option isn't wanted", and so on.
Post by Keith Williams
the tone needs to be gentler
See http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool
Dagobert Michelsen
2015-04-20 12:47:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Keith,

fist let me state that I am not affiliated with the tmux project, but I
want to say a word or two on upstream work.
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
Users can still add comments to those closed tickets, so the act of
closing a ticket does not necessarily put an end to its discussion.
I understand that but the impression that leaves is just that; discussion closed. The ultimate thing here is that whoever closes something has made a statement of intent, otherwise it is just to be left open.
e.g.
Some felt strongly about this. No real explanation was given. You could keep the mailing lists around, but host the project somewhere else.
Because if you are the maintainer you pick the tools. It is stated
that you can make pull requests on the mirror and splitting projects
between sites does not makes things easier. This handling is usually
overhead.
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
Comments like "magic ESP hat" are not welcoming.
The bug report was really bad. Which platform? Which version? Essentially
he wasted time from the upstream maintainer as he replicated it. If he
would have stated „I have 1.8“ he would probably got an immediate answer
„use 1.9 because it is broken“. Lots of these 5 minute things sum up
and you end up getting nothing done. A bad error report is an insult too.
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
"I really don't think this is necessary" - without explanation why.
You need someone who gates requests or you get bloatware. If the one who
raised the bug really thinks it is needed then he can pick up the discussion
again and state usecases. Often you get feature requests of people who
think it „is nice“ to have it, but without a usecase.


I hope my comments help you understand that upstream often has its
reasons.


Best regards

— Dago
--
"You don't become great by trying to be great, you become great by wanting to do something,
and then doing it so hard that you become great in the process." - xkcd #896
Suraj N. Kurapati
2015-04-20 19:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Willians
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
Users can still add comments to those closed tickets, so the act of
closing a ticket does not necessarily put an end to its discussion.
I understand that but the impression that leaves is just that;
Impressions are highly subjective. In reality, the discussion is
not closed because users can still add comments to closed tickets.

If you're really concerned about these closed tickets, add comments
to them and perhaps ask their original submitters to do so as well.
Post by Keith Willians
The ultimate thing here is that whoever closes something has made
a statement of intent, otherwise it is just to be left open.
The interpretation of intent is highly subjective, and the practice
of leaving tickets open varies from open source project to project.

Did you read this? It may help clarify the impression you're having:
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool

Cheers.
Roberto Franceschini
2015-04-20 17:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Honesty I think that the examples you quoted are all border line. I mean the answers from developers are definitely improbable, just adding an emoticon I think it will help to express the irony that probably I am catching in that sentence and maybe you are not.

Frankly I believe that in any context, from source Forge forums to telling your kids why they can't have more candies, it is quite bad and ineffective to say just Yes or No without any supporting explanation.

In my opinion explaining is the key.

Therefore it is surely a fault to reply with a one-liner because that can hardly fit any explanations.
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
Post by Keith Williams
In looking at tmux and the sorts of tickets raised against it I
have noticed that a lot of genuine concerns users have had are
closed with terse replies such as "This is in the todo list", or
"This option isn't wanted", or "This is being worked on", without
reference.
Users can still add comments to those closed tickets, so the act of
closing a ticket does not necessarily put an end to its discussion.
I understand that but the impression that leaves is just that; discussion closed. The ultimate thing here is that whoever closes something has made a statement of intent, otherwise it is just to be left open.
e.g.
Some felt strongly about this. No real explanation was given. You could keep the mailing lists around, but host the project somewhere else.
Comments like "magic ESP hat" are not welcoming.
"I really don't think this is necessary" - without explanation why.
There's many more examples.
Keith
Post by Suraj N. Kurapati
For instance, a concerned user may add a comment to a closed ticket
asking for a reference on how "this is being worked on" or they may
ask for clarification on why "this option isn't wanted", and so on.
Post by Keith Williams
the tone needs to be gentler
See http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT
Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard
Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises
http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual- event?utm_
source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=VA_SF
_______________________________________________
tmux-users mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tmux-users
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